How to Support Aging Parents & Relatives

Caring for aging parents comes with financial and emotional challenges. In this episode, Austin, Josh, and Scott will talk through practical ways to support those closest to you as they get older, from financial planning to lifestyle decisions. They’ll cover the sandwich generation concept, how to navigate tough conversations, set healthy boundaries, and make smart choices that protect both your parents' well-being and your own financial future. 

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Chapters

• 3:20 What is the Sandwich Generation? Are You a Part of It?
• 5:33 Does Distance to Your Aging Parents Matter?
• 8:21 Communication Vs. Quality of Relationships
• 9:42 What Are The Signs That My Aging Relative Needs Help?
• 11:52 Starting the Conversation: Navigating Financial Care
• 14:14 Financial Challenges When Caring for Aging Parents
• 21:35 Estate Planning Documents to Consider
• 23:01 What If My Aging Parent Is Hesitant to Change?
• 25:19 Should I Consider Talking to a Life Coach?

Transcript

You are listening to The Wealth Mindset Show, where Hixon Zuercher Capital Management's team of finance professionals, portfolio managers, and a life coach come together to tackle complex topics in finance and retirement planning, so you don't have to.

From investment strategies and wealth management to tax planning, retirement income, and aligning your money with your values and purpose, The Wealth Mindset Show offers the tools to thrive.

Austin Wilson:

All right. Hey, hey, hey, welcome to The Wealth Mindset Show, where our Hixon Zuercher team will have conversations on managing wealth, navigating retirement, and making smart decisions for a secure, meaningful future. I'm Austin Wilson, director of investments at Hixon Zuercher Capital Management.

Josh Robb:

And I'm Josh Robb, Director of Wealth Management at Hixon Zuercher Capital Management. And today we are joined by Scott Miller, our life coach. He's been on here a couple times, so we're glad to have you back. And we are talking about aging parents or relatives and how we can support them. And I know with your life coaching, sometimes that is a topic that comes up a lot when it says, hey, you know what I'm dealing with... In fact, in our industry it's called the sandwich generation and that you're dealing with kids issues and parent issues and you're stuck in between.

Scott Miller:

That's exactly right.

Josh Robb:

And we're looking at mainly that parent situation today.

Scott Miller:

That's right.

Austin Wilson:

So by no means are we bringing Scott on to have him as the aging parent.

Josh Robb:

No.

Austin Wilson:

He's dealing with this on his own as the sandwich. So let's talk about this. Let's just dig into some hypothetical situations. Some things we're going to be talking about financial lifestyle, things going on with this, but here's just kind of a tee up of how do we feel about this? So suppose you're in bed at night and you get a phone call, you're like, "Oh no, this is usually important. Because I don't usually answer the phone." It's so and so. It's my mom's neighbor and my mom fell and she had a fall in the kitchen. She's okay. But it makes me go, wow, this is real. She's never really done that before. What's going on? Is she safe living at home? Does she have a plan for emergencies if medical emergencies happen? Or even starts thinking about, oh my goodness, I'm doing anything about care facilities and the finances that go around that. And then obviously then there's the non-financial side of it. How do I have that conversation with my parents?

Scott Miller:

That's right.

Austin Wilson:

They're starting to get a little older. Maybe they're not as sturdy as they used to be and a little bit less safe perhaps on their own. So how do we have that conversation without making them feel like they're losing their independence? So Scott, this just really tees up-

Josh Robb:

Side note though. That actually happened to me when I was younger. It was my parents, but my grandparents. My grandpa had fallen, my grandma could not get him up. So middle of the night I got woken up, my mom said, "Would you mind driving in and helping?" And I did. So I drove into town, helped him get back into bed, and I was on my way home and I got pulled over, not for speeding, but because I was a young guy.

Austin Wilson:

In the middle of the night.

Josh Robb:

I have curfew. Sheriff was like, "Can I ask where you're coming from, where you're going?" I said, "I was in town helping my grandpa get back in bed. He fell and I'm on my way home." She was kind like, "Okay." And I didn't get sick or anything. Again, I wasn't speeding. But that's the situation you deal with is that you need somebody because their choices were call an ambulance or a paramedic or have somebody come in and help in that situation. And so it happens a lot more often, especially again as we talk about that generation who is stuck maybe trying to help care for them but is still doing and has other obligations around them. I know we mentioned the sandwich, but you can explain where they are and how they're stuck there.

[3:20] - What is the Sandwich Generation? Are You a Part of It?

 Scott Miller:

Most of the sandwich generation is you're talking about Gen Xers and baby boomers for the most part. So we're talking about people who are in their forties, fifties, sixties, and maybe even into their seventies. And again, a lot of these people that are taking care of people who are older than them, which is the top of the sandwich, they're also taking care of people who are younger than them. There's still a generation that's below them or their kids or whatever it is. Today, of course, we're talking about aging parents and those that are older than us. So it's the top of the sandwich.

But a lot of what I'm going to talk about today and comes from experience. I have just been through this myself. So seven years ago, my dad had passed away and my mom was in this situation, so we had to kind of do some things with her stuff and her living situation. And then I just went through this with my in-laws a year ago. So this is fresh on my mind. It is something that is dear to my heart. It is a difficult situation, a difficult transition that we're looking at today.

Austin Wilson:

You are the meat of the sandwich.

Scott Miller:

Yeah, that's right. We like to talk about food. We, that's right. Austin and I like to talk about food.

Austin Wilson:

Especially meat.

Scott Miller:

Yes.

Austin Wilson:

But yeah, so you're taking care of an older generation above you and all the while you've got adult children-

Scott Miller:

That's right. Exactly.

Austin Wilson:

... that you're taking care of and helping guide as they're making adult decisions as well. So totally sandwiched up here.

Josh Robb:

And that generation, a lot of them are still working. And so what they're stuck with is a full-time job and this care responsibility. And that's where the stress load comes from for a lot of them. Is this idea that I'm working all day and then I have to find a way to help take care of my parents. Not only when I'm free, I can go do it, but while I'm not available, somebody has to. And so you're right, they get stuck on this almost sense of guilt that they're working when their parents need them. And they took care of me when I was younger. I needed to take care of them, but they also have this work I have to work. There's a lot of and fault-

Scott Miller:

I have to care of all those responsibilities. Exactly.

Austin Wilson:

Let's talk about some factors that go into supporting those aging parents. And it doesn't have to be parents, it can be any relative, but a lot of times it's your direct parents. So let's talk about the topic of distance versus short distance care. So maybe something that really close to home versus a little bit further. What do you guys mean by that?

[5:33] - Does Distance to Your Aging Parents Matter?

Scott Miller:

Yeah, I think for me, my parents lived two hours away as do my in-laws. And so that's a much different situation. That's a little bit more difficult. You don't see some of the signs. We're going to talk about signs and symptoms here in just a second. But it's a little bit harder to see those. So you have to rely a little bit more on neighbors and people around them, people that know them and are seeing some of these things. So that versus if they're living in the same community. So if you're with them all the time, you're maybe starting to notice some of those signs. I think it's a little bit easier again, when it comes to the long distance versus the short distance type of relationships

Josh Robb:

And then getting the information. So if you're relying on someone to relate to you that... So if your parent goes to the doctor and the doctor tells them things, it may not get translated correctly back to you. And so having some way of getting that communication is important so that you are fed the most up-to-date information to help you make those decisions.

Scott Miller:

Yeah, let me stop right there with that. For all of you who don't know this, one of the things that we discovered is there's a portal that the hospital can allow you access to when it comes to medical care. We've discovered this with our in-laws. They were going to appointments and a lot of other different types of things and we didn't really know what was going on from a medical standpoint. Well, when my wife was able to get onto that portal and really be able to see the information about her father and my father-in-law, that really helped the situation to really keep updated on what was going on.

Josh Robb:

Yeah, asking can I do that? And then getting the right forms. So sometimes you need power of attorney or some sort of documents to prove, because again, the healthcare industry is very regulated and so they're not just going to give that to anybody. But if you're proactive ahead of time, getting it set up, getting the permissions, if your parents are still able to make those decisions on their own, they can grant that permission. And then if they can't, if they're in the stage of either dementia or something where they're unable to make decisions, you actually need a legal power of attorney for a lot of those to be granted. Getting to work ahead of time is really important.

Scott Miller:

And my wife was POA. She didn't know it at the time, believe it or not, foundation would be on that and never shared that. But when the crisis came here, we found out, oh yeah, she is medical POA. So it really opened up the possibilities for us in terms of monitoring.

Josh Robb:

POA. Power Of Attorney is an important legal document for estate planning and especially as you're getting older to make sure you've assigned that to somebody and there's healthcare power of attorney and then a legal power of attorney. They don't have to be the same person, but they each have different abilities and responsibilities that they can do. So make sure that if you're reviewing your state plan, you got some people assigned to those that you trust will make good decisions.

[8:21] - Communication & Quality of Relationships

Austin Wilson:

So how does the quality of the relationship that you have with your parents kind of factor into how you support them as they get a little older?

Scott Miller:

Well, I think it's what Josh actually just said. If the quality of the relationship is good, if there's good communication, then maybe a lot of those things.

Austin Wilson:

Yeah, that's true.

Scott Miller:

You've gone through those documents, you've talked about it from a legal standpoint. But even just if you have a good healthy relationship, I just think it's so much easier to make that transition. So again, for those of you who are maybe not even at the stage, just take some time to foster this relationship with your parents with relatives that are older than you, because it's going to make the process a lot easier when you have a good quality relationship, when the communication is good. Again, it's a lot about building trust. If they trust you, then when you go to make those decisions, it's just going to be a lot easier.

Austin Wilson:

Yeah, start early. So maybe as soon as soon as your adult children are responsible and on their own doing their own thing really well, that may be the good time to start having those discussions of planning hopefully many, many years in the future. Get those things set up in understanding with them really soon as well.

Josh Robb:

Don't wait. That's the key. Is you can always make changes to these legal documents, but you can't go and create them when it's too late. And so I would say as soon as you can at least start having those conversations and building those out.

[9:42] - What Are the Signs That My Aging Relative Needs Help?

Austin Wilson:

So let's talk about really understanding the support that might be needed for aging individuals. Particularly Scott, what are some signs that may be a parent or relative may need a little extra help?

Scott Miller:

So some of the signs that I think you need to look out for one would be isolation, just loneliness, just them really just struggling maybe in their home. Again, maybe there's been several instances of falls of injuries. Maybe you're seeing some of the signs and symptoms of some of those things. And then again, one of the things that we found at my mom's house was 12 boxes of Cheerios. So again, what was happening was-

Josh Robb:

They're good for your heart.

Scott Miller:

Cheerios are good. But she was going into town and she had forgotten that she had a box of Cheerios. So again, that was a sign when we went into her house, we found all these boxes of Cheerios. So again, duplicates of a lot of different kinds of things. Again, just any kind of signs of symptoms of memory loss, of forgetfulness, and then just again, just maybe a small minor car accident where there's been a little fender bedder. We had that happen with my mom, where she was in a parking lot and she hit another car.

So again, some of these just again, ability to be able to drive a car to regulate their cell phones and maybe what they're doing on a computer. And then just of course stairs and different obstacles within a house and being able to navigate all those things. Those are kind of some of the signs and symptoms that you really want to look out for.

Josh Robb:

And those are one, an isolated event may not, but if there's a combination or pattern of these things, that's where you see it.

Scott Miller:

And again, this goes into that long distance versus short distance. A lot of times you're going to have to be relying on a neighbor or a really close friend or in my mom's case, it was a small group that she was part of from her church and they alerted us to some of the things that were going on. So yeah, again, if you're right there, if you're watching all this happen before you, living in the same community, that's a big advantage.

[11:52] - Starting the Conversation: Navigating Financial Care

Austin Wilson:

Absolutely. So this is a finance podcast, so we're going to have to talk about money too. We got to talk about money. So it can be a little awkward, but how do you start that conversation when you're talking about finances and the implications of financial planning for maybe long-term care or just help in some way with that individual.

Josh Robb:

And part of it comes with, again, going back to your relationship with them. How comfortable are they or have they been with talking about money with you? Because you can't expect if they've never really shared their financial situation that all of a sudden, "Hey, tell me everything that I need to know."

Scott Miller:

That's right.

Josh Robb:

It doesn't happen. But starting that conversation and saying, look, mom or dad, I don't need to know everything, but I need to know are you getting enough? Are you struggling or is there stress involved? Are things in a way that you're worried about? And we're going to talk about this is scams.

Elderly abuse when it comes to scam and targeting is on the rise. And now with AI and new technology, they can sound like someone they care about. And so they can call on the phone and have some, through all the dark web, some data that they need and then they can have their phone sound like this person and say, "Hey mom, dad, grandma, I got in a car accident and I need some money so that I can repair my car. Can you send me $5,000 please and here's where I need you to send it." Right? And it sounds just like them. They know the names, they know the things. So those are the things you got to talk about.

So making sure maybe they have a financial advisor, somebody helping them oversee that they're not making all the financial decisions. That's really important. And then the doctors. Who are your doctors? I need to make sure if you're getting bills and you're just writing checks, are these all the right things? Are you double paying? There's so much when it comes to billing in the medical industry that somebody needs to help you keep track of it. Mom, dad, do you mind if I help pay those bills for you? Just send them me. I'll take care of them or whatever. You can work those things out with them.

The challenge though is a lot of times, again, the baby boomer generation in particular didn't share a lot about finances with their kids. And so this is a change. So sometimes they may be reluctant to share too much, but maybe reiterating, look, I don't need anything, but I want to help you. It's more to make sure you're safe. That's the key.

[14:14] - Financial Challenges When Caring for Aging Parents

Austin Wilson:

So what are some of the biggest financial challenges that we actually face once we're starting to care for those aging parents? So obviously things cost a lot of money. What are some things we may forget about or need to think about in terms of financial planning in that department?

Josh Robb:

Yeah, I know you've gone through some of these, but for me the high level is one, it's very complicated. Understanding healthcare, understanding what all they need, what they have, what's available to them. Do they have pensions? First, getting your head wrapped around it. The biggest challenge is fully understanding. The older generation, getting grandparents or the generation above, they may have pensions from serving in the military because that older generation, there was a handful of wars where a lot of them served in.

There's things, for instance, we're working with a client who is a widow. Her spouse who's deceased was getting some VA benefits and they may transfer over to the spouse. You have to find that out. There's all these nuances and getting information from the VA is a headache in and of itself sometimes. And so having the whole picture is the first challenge I think. And then from there, understanding who and what has access and making sure that's right. Who can get into these things and mess with them.

Scott Miller:

I think going back to the question you asked about the making it awkward and trying to make it less awkward, and again this is really from both a financial and non-financial is housing. What are you going to do with their house? And then the whole situation of moving maybe to a condo or to an assisted living facility. This is both financial and non-financial. This is both really looking at also just from a different location and all that. And I know with my mom, one of the things that really, really helped was taking her to a geriatric doctor. So we had an evaluation-

Austin Wilson:

To find a really old doctor.

Scott Miller:

That's the key, right?

Austin Wilson:

Yeah.

Josh Robb:

This is a doctor. For those of you who don't know who specializes in working with people-

Austin Wilson:

It's not their age. Not their age.

Josh Robb:

They may be quite young.

Scott Miller:

Yeah, exactly. And we did that. We went up to a hospital up in Akron and we had my mom evaluated. And so now it was kind of like, mom, now remember this is what the doctor said. They did some tests on her and then made some recommendations. And that really set the foundation for, rather than my brother and I were the ones who were saying this or that. And while you're just saying this for whatever reasons, now we could kind of say, "Hey mom, we've taken you, we've had you evaluated. Here's some of the doctor's suggestions." That was really, really helpful.

Austin Wilson:

That's great.

Scott Miller:

And just trying to really get her mind wrapped around that idea of moving out of her big house. She was still taking care of. That was dangerous in a number of different ways because of all the steps and the hazards that were within the home. But really getting to her to a much better place in terms of housing, but also social connections too.

When we moved her to the assisted living facility, her dementia actually improved because of the friendships, the social connections.

Austin Wilson:

Yeah, that's awesome.

Scott Miller:

But I can't emphasize how important that was, of getting through that awkward conversation. And then another thing I would add is just honesty. We just tried to be as hard or as difficult as it was to have some of those conversations with my mom. We just really tried to say, "Mom, we're looking out for your best interests. We love you. We want to help you make the best decisions. And because we love you, these are some of the things that we think should happen." And so again, just communicating that compassion and that honesty.

Josh Robb:

Sometimes explaining how that helps you as well. So staying in this large home, it's causing us stress, Mom."

Austin Wilson:

You're going over and doing all the work...

Scott Miller:

And worrying about, yes.

Josh Robb:

... it'd help you as well as her. Sometimes that makes a difference. I don't want to move out of this house, but mom, I have to drive two hours because you fell and you're hurt yourself.

Scott Miller:

Now we got to do this.

Josh Robb:

And so maybe together this would be better for all of us. And making sure that they see the big pictures is helpful.

Austin Wilson:

So financially, first of all, plug for an episode all about healthcare that we had not long ago. So check that out. We'll link that in the show notes below. Maybe we'll put it up right here in our YouTube video. But obviously we're talking about people who are most likely to be on Medicare. Far and wide, that's going to be the majority of the people we're talking to today. But how can we talk about preparing for the costs of assisted living in-home care and navigating really how your benefits plan that you're enrolled in is going to pay for that?

Josh Robb:

And that's one of the biggest costs they're going to see in the healthcare is that end of life care between assisted living facility or an in-house care or those types just not cheap. And having that conversation and having an idea of what assets are available is really important. That sets up the first... There's all different levels of care. And if you start by looking at the most expensive, but then realize that would only last for a year versus going to a nice place, but maybe not the top end, but that gets you three, four years of care. You got to understand what you're getting and how long that may last.

There's not a good solution. Medicaid is kind of the safety net, but that's really a safety net. It's designed for the bare minimum taken care of. You really want to understand what gives my family, my parents the best care for what they can afford for as long as I think they may need it. And that's really the balance. Unfortunately, it's not cheap and that's the hardest part.

Austin Wilson:

And it can be years.

Josh Robb:

Oh, years, yep. I think the average is three years for somebody who goes into that facility. But for a lot of them it's a short-term stay. They fall, get hurt, they go to rehab at a facility 8 months, 12 months, and then they're out. Those are a different type of stay. They're still expensive, but a lot of times health insurance covers portions of that. But when you're in there for good, you're selling your home and that's where you're going to be. It could be years down the road and it could add up over time.

Scott Miller:

Do you see too, Josh, that a lot of people just wait till the last minute to kind of plan financially for these things until the crisis comes or whatever-

Austin Wilson:

It's too late...

Scott Miller:

Whereas if you plan maybe 10 or 20 years in advance financially about what's coming and the reality of it, I would imagine that's probably a much better.

Josh Robb:

Some of it is just not wanting to admit it. And we all do this, right? When there's something you don't want to deal with, you just ignore it. And that's one of the things. Especially when you think about, oh, this is our home we grew up and our kids, all the members are here. I don't want to leave this. And they'll fight very long and hard to maintain that. Where they may have been better off downsizing and may could have got more years, but they waited too long. Now it's going straight from the home to assisted living instead of transitioning a different way. So yeah, you're right, that is a big change and the long-term care is expensive, but you don't really qualify for it when you're 80 because they know that's common. So you're right, you have to start some of those conversations very early on if you're thinking through it.

[21:35] - Estate Planning Documents to Consider

Austin Wilson:

So Josh, we mentioned earlier, legal, medical POAs, obviously very important legal documents to have on hand, ideally earlier rather than later. Any other key documents when it comes to our estate planning?

Josh Robb:

Yeah. You have the healthcare power of attorney, then you have the financial power of attorney, which covers all the other things. Having your will, all your assets titled correctly, that's the other key, especially if there's both your parents are together and still alive, who owns what is important. Because if one of them is going to go into assisted living, there are rules on what can and can't be counted. And so understanding titling, and there's usually a five-year look back on when and how you change things. So yeah, that matters a lot.

The other thing is to understand who has access. So I went back to talk about that there can be joint accounts where another person has access to it. And if you're having somebody help you pay your bills, things like that, there are some ways you could set that up so that they can write checks, do those type of things. So again, you want to do that while you can still make decisions and are able to make those legal decisions on your own. Because once you cross that line, it's very hard to make changes. And so if you have dementia or Alzheimer's or something like that, and you can no longer be trusted to make those decisions by the courts, they will not honor any changes. And so you have to go through a long tedious process just to get anything done. So yeah, definitely don't put that off, especially if you know those signs are coming.

[23:01] - What If My Aging Parent Is Hesitant to Change?

Austin Wilson:

So Scott, let's hone in a little bit more on the emotional side of things here. So how would you navigate the emotional impacts of helping your parents who might be resistant to change?

Scott Miller:

Well, I think one thing, a lot of times our emotions lead us to making not wise decisions. And so I think as the sandwich caregiver that as you're caring now, I think sometimes you just have to remove some of those emotions. Again, it goes back to what I had said before about I'm going to do the best. Mom and dad, I'm going to do what's best for you because I love you and I care for you. And so sometimes that's removing from you as the caregiver. That doesn't mean you're not compassionate or you're not caring for them.

But again, sometimes it's just removing those emotions and doing what's best, doing the best thing for them. So I think that's one part of it. And again, another part of it I think is just realizing that you're now kind of the parent. So again, think about maybe when you were raising kids and you had young children, and so it's kind of a reversal of that. You're now the parent, whereas they were the parent before. And again, you're trying to guide them towards making good decisions. And so again, sometimes we just have to remove that emotional aspect of it, I think as a caregiver.

Josh Robb:

And I think along with that understanding, again, you have a view or I have a view of my mom and dad. And my view of who they are and what they can and can't do is sometimes locked in a time frame maybe that they're not at anymore. And as they into phases, you have to have the idea, who am I helping now? And it doesn't change who they are and what they did for you, but to say, okay, I may have to step in and make a decision on their behalf, they just can't do it anymore. And so in a sense, removing that emotion of, well, they've always done this for me. Well, maybe they can't. And so you have to reverse that role.

Scott Miller:

And some of it is the reality of seeing it in ourselves, right? Now, Austin, you're younger, Josh and I, especially myself, we're seeing our bodies slow down, do some of the things. So again, it's reality-

Josh Robb:

You got to do more stretching before you do normal chores.

Scott Miller:

Yeah. I follow that. So I think it's the acceptance of the reality of that or the aging process and then realizing that's accelerating for our parents.

[25:19] - Should I Consider Talking to a Life Coach?

Austin Wilson:

So Scott, what role would a life coach really play in this whole discussion of helping families, maybe aging relatives through this transition?

Scott Miller:

So some of it is, again, making those wise decisions. Taking the emotion out of it and really helping a client like this, guide them through the options that are out there. So again, some of it is providing resources and really talking through. So a life coach, what we do a lot of is asking a lot of questions. We ask a lot of questions. We try to get to the depth of, we talked about the quality of the relationship and all of those. So again, we're going to really encourage them to try to improve the quality of that relationship. And then just taking some small little proactive steps towards helping them.

And a lot of times it doesn't have to be these gigantic things, especially if we're starting the conversation early and thinking about, okay, how can maybe we repair this relationship? How can we increase the communication and all of that? So that when that day comes, when they're making that transition, we're more ready for it. But again, just looking at all the different options and resources that are available to them and asking them a lot of questions and just really starting the process.

Austin Wilson:

Any final takeaways? Any things we should really get people to start today?

Josh Robb:

Well start those conversations. Even with your parents, if they're not quite at that phase, just say, "Hey, as time goes on, mom, dad, I want to be there to help you." And so in order to do that, we just have to have this open dialogue that you tell me if you have concerns. If you say, you know what? I've noticed recently I keep losing my keys and it's not normal for me. I usually can find them. Let me know those things so that I can help. And then always remember, because again, part of the stress I've seen is we've dealt with some clients is again, later in stages too. Especially they may fight back against your decisions. And the hardest part is when they are pushing back on what you know is best for them, you have to do what's best for them, even if they don't see it. And that's hard.

Scott Miller:

That is really hard.

Josh Robb:

Knowing that you're doing what's best for them, that's the key. Don't let the other things... Because again, they may not be thinking clearly or where they would've before to acknowledge that you're doing what's best for them. And to me, I've sat across from people who are just in tears over this stress point of they want one thing, I know they need something else, and how do I decide? And you got to lean on what's best for them at that point.

Scott Miller:

Absolutely.

Josh Robb:

To me it's hard and I don't have a good solution to that. But no, you're doing it right. If your intentions are best for them, they may not fully grasp it, but what you're doing is right for them.

Austin Wilson:

I feel like we could talk on this for hours, but unfortunately we're going to wrap this one up. So Scott, thanks for joining us today.

Scott Miller:

Yes, thank you for having me.

Austin Wilson:

Really appreciate it.

Scott Miller:

Appreciate it.

Austin Wilson:

If you guys found value in our conversation. Don't forget to subscribe to The Wealth Mindset Show or whatever platform you're listening to, even on YouTube, so you never miss an episode. Visit us at thewealthmindsetshow.com for more resources. Or if you're ready to invest with us, head over to hzcapital.com, and we'd invite you to follow us on any social media that you'd like. We're on pretty much every platform, and thank you for listening. We'll see you next time.

Josh Robb:

Talk to you later.

Scott Miller:

Thank you.

Josh Robb:

Bye

Thank you for joining us at The Wealth Mindset Show, where we tackle the complexities of finance and life planning to help you align your wealth with your values. We hope today's conversation provided value and clarity as you navigate your financial journey.

Your hosts work for Hixon Zuercher Capital Management, and all opinions expressed by them or any podcast guest are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of Hixon Zuercher Capital Management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon for investment decisions. Clients of Hixon Zuercher Capital Management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast. There is no guarantee that statements, opinions, or forecasts provided herein will prove to be correct. Past performance may not be indicative of future results. Indices are not available for direct investment. And any investor attempting to mimic index performance would incur fees and expenses that could reduce returns. Securities investing involves risks including the potential loss of principal, and there is no assurance that any investment plan or strategy will be successful.